This campaign is for vehicles that had 21B10 S2 performed and had an engine shudder afterward. Powertrain Control Module Reprogram For Cam Phaser Rattle Buy or Avoid? 2nd Gen with #21B10 and #21N08 and - Ford Raptor Forum It may not display this or other websites correctly. X-Bull winch reviews | Where are they made? Mine had only recently started rattling on startup. . PCM reprogram due to engine shudder (Program 21n08) Cam phaser rattle back and check engine light on. What did you do to your truck today? Are CSP's only performed as needed? (CSP 21N03 and 21N08) Program 21N08 will be performed if your vehicle exhibits an engine shudder during light throttle operation between 1,500 and 2,500 rpm. This newer field service action 21N08 software update is designed to solve the motor shuddering problem caused by the 21B10 reflash. Has Ford corrected the Cam Phaser rattle in Gen3? This is because the PCM reprogramming process addresses the root cause of the issue and can help to prevent the issue from recurring in the future. Has anyone had FSA 21N08 reflash done yet? | Page 4 | Ford Expedition Forum When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. This can be caused by a variety of factors, including a dirty or faulty mass air flow sensor. The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. Just noticed a shudder after the truck was serviced last weekend. Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER; Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program issued. The initial cam phasers rattle would generally first appear on a cold start due to a lack of oil. The open recalls are unrelated to the transmission. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder. My name is Zachary Drumm! If the PCM software is incorrect or outdated, it can cause the engine to shudder or shake. Replacing rear bumper trim panel - anyone had to? Fords are equipped with an adaptive shift feature where the computer learns to adjust the shifting for a smoother ride based on the drivers habits. Shudder/Jerking Issue When Accelerating - Ford F150 Forum Hey! Sep 13, 2021. Generally, Fords are extremely reliable vehicles and are cheap to repair. I have an appointment to drop mine off in October. These are named 21N03 which is targeted to the startup rattle and replaces the cam phasers. This campaign is for vehicles that had 21B10 S2 performed and had an engine shudder afterward. Mine doesn't die like yours, but definitely a problem there. Everything seems relatively fine since, no check engine lights. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Posts: 20. If the Carfax shows that the vehicle that you are looking at buying has already received the 21B10, then you may need to take it in for the 21NO8 reflash to revert those settings. Manage Preferences - I ended up having it in the shop 4 times between 3 different dealerships and none of them could fix the issue. 21N08B 1.2 Hours How Much Does A Powertrain Control Module Reflash Cost? 5. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. PCM Reprogram Due To Engine Shudder 21N08 - Tool Tally it's a software update to prevent a phaser . I would like to hear from some of the owners which have had the 21N08 update done and see if their issues have gone away. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. Only 21B10 has to be completed, 21N08 is extended coverage. I'm late to the party but my 3.5L EcoBoost is doing this and it's getting worse. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission. I will see what I can do to assist with this acceleration concern. Or, if your vehicle has been in a collision, the impact could have damaged the PCM. If your Ford vehicle is experiencing an engine shudder, its important to get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. They only pay the dealership 75-80% of the labor cost, and guess what, the technicians are the ones who have to cover the difference. Recall letters were mailed to each affected vehicle owner On September 27, 2021. However, if the vibrations are severe enough to cause your car to shake or rattle, then its definitely time to take it to a mechanic for further diagnosis. 14. Reboot. Unfortunately, many users reported a return of the symptoms after the 21B10 reflash. Common transmission issues that may contribute to the engine shudder 21N08 issue include low transmission fluid levels, worn transmission components, or a damaged transmission control module. PDF TO - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration When it comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the right spot. Summary. I've seen some mention of a shifter cable clip that breaks or something. However, the engine shudder is quite noticeable. However, the increased oil in the cam phasers may affect engine performance, especially when cruising at a steady speed. So far, the results are positive. The reprogram will update the engine control module (ECM) with new calibration files that are optimized for use with low deposit engines. 5.7 Hemi Lifter Failure Symptoms Causes & Fixes, Lomax Tonneau Cover problems & troubleshooting, Truxedo Sentry CT Problems & Troubleshooting, UnderCover Armor Flex Problems & Troubleshooting, Retrax Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting, Peragon Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting. At Ford Motor Company, we take vehicle safety and quality very seriously. Reaction score. It was also discussed that the reprogramming could result in a shudder in the drive train which would require further work. There are several F150s, Expeditions, and Navigators that needed a PCM reprogram due to an Engine shudder. This makes it easy for them to compare symptoms, find solutions and unlock the best-hidden features in their trucks. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing Looking to buy my first F150, But the 21N08 Update Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. If youve recently had your engine repaired or replaced, the new parts may not be compatible with the old PCM programming. By logging into your account, you agree to our, yes they are only done if the concern is present. When this happens, the engine can stall without warning and the vehicle may not be able to be restarted. From what I have gathered my dealership performed 21B10 on October 1st (NOT 21N08 which is supposed to be a factory roll back). 21N08 update, So I do not know if should pull the trigger or not. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Because the 21B10 has expired and the 21N03 is about to expire at the time of this writing, we need to explore what your costs would be if you needed to replace the cam phasers out of your own wallet. We are talking about millions of trucks and SUVs! Ford is offering a no-cost repair to reprogram the PCM on these vehicles suffering from engine shudder following the previous 21B10 update. If your engine does stall unexpectedly, try to pull over to a safe location before attempting to restart it. Ford 5.4 Engine Life Expectancy . FSA 21N08 | Ford Raptor Forum When there are problems with the transmission, it can cause the engine to shudder. The problem stems from the fact that these vehicles are equipped with an engine control module (ECM) that can fail due to a software error. (2). Automated page speed optimizations for fast site performance, Benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue, Improving performance and fuel efficiency. What causes the engine shudder 21N08 issue? I have a new to me 2017 SCREW that I purchased about a month ago. What is this all about? UPDATE: So I talked to Ford customer service today. By updating the software, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder 21N08 issue. JavaScript is disabled. You are using an out of date browser. It is not necessary to remove the two left valve cover camshaft sensors. The below is copied and pasted from this thread: 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER update. If Ford was serious about this they would offer customers compensation as Volkswagen did. JavaScript is disabled. In the meantime, its important to be extra careful when driving one of these recalled vehicles. Surprised to not see a whole slew of threads or posts on 21N08. MORE importantly, do it or not, it says they will only cover repairs until JAN 1, 2023. There are several reasons why the PCM may need to be reprogrammed. #5. PDF TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 20- 3.5L EcoBoost - Cold Start Ticking When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. As I read it (not saying I'm right), If you DON'T do the updates, I think Ford will not cover it in the future. Theyll be able to determine if the problem is due to a faulty PCM and can reprogram it accordingly. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, such as replacing transmission components or performing other repairs, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. You are using an out of date browser. Reprogram the PCM using the latest software level of the appropriate Ford . We cover this rattle in detail and how to fix it for free. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? Thats why you have to take the help of a mechanic or dealership. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER; . That said, after some pressuring, I had a Ford technician told me that it would likely cost around $300 to run the reprogramming on your PCM if you were to bring it in outside of warranty. Sounds good to me. Because they are such a popular model, Ford F150 owners have their own forums and subreddits devoted to their truck model. I asked them to let me know if the Cam Phaser Rattle recall had ever been done to the vehicle and when I picked it up, they told me they did "RECALL 210B10" and the work order stated "210B10D Reprogram PCM to the latest level". Privacy Statement - By logging into your account, you agree to our. Only detectable at a crawl speed. Getting the parts changed out by a poorly trained monkey when not needed is risky in my opinion. If your check engine light is on and youre experiencing engine shudder, your car may need a pcm reprogram. Ford is aware of this problem and has issued a recall to fix it. Was it stalling or did the auto shutoff just turn it off for a few seconds? I'm a long-time Ford and automotive enthusiast, and I've been writing about cars for over 10 years. If you know how to fix it cheaply, then you might be able to get yourself a deal. This can be done by a Ford dealership or an authorized service center. A manufacturer customer satisfaction program is a voluntary initiative undertaken by a company to improve customer satisfaction. - Anyone have any information regarding the new recall notice I just received in the Ford App. In simple terms, engine shudder is a vibration that can be felt coming from the engine bay. Generally, the timing chain, chain tensioners and water pump will be replaced at the same time, driving costs up to about $3,000. If it is, theyll likely recommend getting the pcm reprogrammed. I imagine that you may get the cold start rattle and earlier cam phaser failure, but at least the engine wont shudder. I am confused about this. Contact Us - You must log in or register to reply here. Advertising - Later that day, it stalled again when I was at a red light. to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. The engine shudders 21N08 issue can be caused by a variety of factors, including problems with the PCM software, issues with the transmission, or a lack of proper maintenance. This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. That population essentially consists of vehicles that were poorly maintained or ran low on oil. Engine. My truck has 8600 miles on it currently. If it becomes corrupted or damaged, it can cause all sorts of problems including engine shudder. I have three trucks in mind that I am looking at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts. So I should probably find out what this transmission repair is. How can I verify my PCM is extended to 70k? This is the PCM update to prevent cam phaser rattle and will erase your tune. Over the weekend I pulled over to the side of the road to get something out of the glove box and the truck stalled while I was idling in park. If you have one of these bikes, you should stop using it immediately and return it to Walmart for a full refund. How about introducing yourself in the new members section and posting a pic of your truck? One of the most common issues that you may face is to program 21n08 PCM to reprogram due to engine shudder. I called my dealership this morning and they said there was nothing to be done to the vehicle. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. 21n08 - PCM reprogram due to engine shudder. Just extended the coverage. Less rattle on startup, and no adverse effects so far. Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder. The recall does not mean there is anything wrong with the vehicle, its a software update to prevent a phaser rattle noise from developing. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you own a Ford vehicle, theres a good chance that it has been recalled for a PCM reprogramming. . Contact Us - Id like to know whats causing this as well. Customer Satisfaction Program 21N08 Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder LABOR ALLOWANCES Description Labor Operation Labor Time Test drive to verify engine shudder and reprogram PCM to last revision. Check Gauges Light Comes On, And Car Shuts Off, Roach Getting Into Car Meme Explained: Get On This Trend. It is important to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue to maintain the performance and safety of the vehicle. The transmission is responsible for transmitting power from the engine to the wheels. The engine shudders 21N08 issue is a problem that causes the engine to shake or shudder. These effected models include: This vehicle repair also covers the Ford Raptor and Limited F150 variants. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. The 21N08 is a pcm reprogram due to engine shudder that reverts the programming back to the original programming prior to the 21B10 reflash. I had the original work done under warranty 54k miles. Are you saying the vehicles primarily affected by the engine shudder were poorly maintain or ran low on oil? If your Ford car or truck is experiencing engine shudder, it could be the result of a variety of different issues. Sometimes you can get a Ford for cheap because it has a cold start rattle. So i guess every 30k miles i am looking at $1200 bill..crazy this is not covered under warranty!!! I read somewhere that adding an octane booster for a couple of tanks will help. This can be caused by something as simple as a loose spark plug, or something more serious like an issue with the crankshaft or connecting rods. Send us a private message with your F-150's VIN. Im a little more willing to whip out the AAA card for the extra fun factor and luxury of a Raptor. The good news is that replacing the cam phasers will fix the cold start rattle. If a car is not regularly maintained, it can lead to problems such as the engine shudder 21N08 issue. The three trucks I have looked at have had the 21N08 update, so my question is..If you were in my position, would you pull the . Did the re program- to no avail- the engine light back on. Id look much closer at a CPO truck than the remaining 2nd hand market. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder condition on certain vehicles. at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. Manage Preferences - Reaction score. This is outlined in the letter Ford sent to us 2018-2020 Expy owners . If your cam phasers are not noisy, don't fix stuff that isn't broken, obviously the earlier PCM upgrade was done that extends your warranty to 70000 miles and prorates beyond that, you don't have the shudder so not needed the 108 flash. By logging into your account, you agree to our. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder". If you search 21N08 you'll see that's the fix for it. Good thing I bought the extended warranty. If you click them and So, it is certainly very uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for the drivers and passengers. In addition, the ECM will receive an update that will improve transmission shift quality. (1). The PCM reprogramming process involves updating the software that controls the PCM. It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. BUT..I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER update. This PCM update is program 21B10. The cause of engine shudder can vary, but its often the result of an imbalance in the engine itself. . General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low percentage . In December, I went in for the 21b10 - PCM Program for Cam Phaser Rattle. Ill try to update this report in 2023 as this customer satisfaction bulletin expires. cam phaser rattles. This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued - Ford Expedition Forum The Ford F150 sold 663,508 trucks in 2021, beating out Ram and GM. I had 21B03 and knock on wood I haven't had any negative side effects like I have read about At the worst, if the issue re-appears (low likelihood), you might end up out of pocket for a fairly affordable repair. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. This issue can be uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for the driver and passengers, and it can also lead to reduced performance and fuel efficiency. I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". additional VCT or engine timing related components not included in the Parts List. Terms of Service - Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. I started Fordmasterx as an effort to combine my two passions writing and car ownership into one website. Has anyone else experienced this after having the PCM updated? I scheduled the initial step of the Cam Phaser Reprogramming about three weeks ago. JavaScript is disabled. All the VCT solenoid and spark plug tube seals require inspection, but not all require replacement. Hello Raptor world. I also don't know if the issue with the Cap Phasers will cause other engine problems down the road. Engine shudder is a vibration that can be felt in the vehicle's engine, and it is usually caused by an imbalance .
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